Author Topic: So, you think you can build?  (Read 1304 times)

Legacy_Genisys

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So, you think you can build?
« on: July 26, 2010, 01:53:35 am »


               Now, this document isn’t for everyone, reader beware…  (TROLL WARNING)

I freely offer my building experience & advice, you can throw it in the trash if you don't like it, nevertheless, here it is...

(You can quote me if you like)  "My biggest turn off with offline modules are custom content / Haks / etc. is if I have to download and install a Hak and/or files manually to play the module, I'm not touching it!"

I'd highly recommend compressing the files with the nwn content builder so players can simply download, double click to install all the files & content, and quickly go play...

Most of the time I only check out the modules to see if it's worth playing, more often than not, I get to the first 4 or 5 areas and learn it's loaded down with way too many placeable objects &/or NPCs which hogs if not kills the player’s computer resources, the module may induce a constant lock (cut scene mania), or worse than all that, it's in movie mode, where you actually get to play like 10% of the time.

90% of the modules created are a fail in my book...

It makes me want to scream, truly...

"I don't want to play a movie module, I don't want to read a module, I don't want to wade through fancy overloaded areas (with way too many placeable objects & NPCs nor extremely large areas), and I sure as heck don't want to fight goblins offline for 2 XP and 1 GP, sorry, but I don't want to play those kind of modules, so please....

As one of my players visiting my online server module put it, "If I see Original Campaign content, I just throw it in the trash bin, or just leave if it's a Server."  

(Wise words builders should listen to!)

If you’re going to do it, then do it right, THE FIRST TIME...

A module worth doing is worth doing well.....

If you need resources, ask, there are lots of people here to help you build your module....

If you want to be proud of your work, do a good job...

I remember one kid who said about my work "This has got to be like the best module, like ever..."  Sure it may have been just his opinion, but hearing that made me very happy that I spent 6 months on the project...  (Yes that's all the Kudos you may get or don't get, if it's a lame module)

I've made lots of modules, I know the frustrations you hit, truly, but that doesn't mean you should give it 1/2 of an attempt, making a module requires serious commitment, dedication, a mass amount learning, testing, tweaking, lots of patience, and most of all a lot of time... 

When (not if) you get frustrated, take a break, you will come back later in proper spirits, ready to tackle the world. (Literally)
It's a daunting task to start a new module, knowing what lays ahead, for those who have made a module or two; you know exactly what I’m talking about.  However, any kid could put together 100 areas (With Encounters) in a module in a few days, no joke…

(Will it be worth playing? Probably not.)
I know some people like 6 hour or less playtime in a module, but that's simply something I cannot stand building, cause, despite how rich a 6 hour module may be, it's only 6 hours, the fantasy dies too quickly for me...
Some people like high action, some do not, some like balance, some like Uber, but most just want to have fun!
That's worth repeating...

"Most Just Want To Have Fun!"

Is your module fun?

Have you actually play-tested / played the module yourself?

Is it too hard?

Is it too easy?

Is there enough interaction in the module for the PCs?

Are the NPC Conversations worth reading, is it a manuscript for a Play where the players have to read for an extremely long time? Is it funny?   Do the NPCs have personality or are they bland?

I remember one module I downloaded, something that blew me away (in a very bad way), something about sexual content advisories, nevertheless, it was like watching a movie (with no talk, just subtitles which only worked when you clicked on them), lamest and dumbest module I have ever played on...

Introducing rape into a fantasy game = BAD TASTE, period...

Remember above all else, it's a fantasy game, so MAKE SURE< you got the fantasy part correct..!

The NWN Game is NOT a life like / ultra realism game, get real with yourself, people play the game to have fun & play (not live) in a fantasy world, they don't want to lift rocks or logs to look for food, all so they can press the R button to spend 20 minutes resting, (Staring at a blank screen for 20 minutes = Extremely Lame)

I've been a DM since 1987 in D&D, no I'm not a know it all, no, I'm not the best builder nor DM, nor even a master scripter, but my work doesn't suck either, though some may not like it, at least I got one thing correct, many people did enjoy it, because I'd rather build for the masses and a few highly opinionated persons who think the game should be this way or that way...  Building for others is a talent & gift..

One question you should ask yourself is:  Who are you building for?

I've expressed a lot of my opinion, much of which could be backed by solid material written in countless D&D Books, the #1 thing you need to know as a DM is, if the players are complaining / not having fun, it's YOUR JOB to fix it, and fast!

People get bored too, so keep that in mind the next time you’re tempted to make a 16 X 16 Map (or greater) with 3 spawns on it and nothing else to interact with...  I disagree you should not build big maps, in fact, smaller maps are much better because it takes less time to load, they can be a little more detailed without adding too much lag, and please, for the love of the game, STOP PUTTING over 10 NPCs on a map, you only kill the player's computer resources, so just stop...

I've seen so many lame modules it makes me want to puke; seriously, just because they did it in the OC doesn't mean you should...  Even the OC didn't get carried away in most cases. (In some town areas they did)

If your building for a server you need to be even MORE CONCIOUS of how you build, because taking up too many resources with congestive areas / NPCs spawned, can spell lag very quickly. (You should spawn & de-spawn NPCs by scripting always)  Placeable objects on the other hand, well, that may be a bit much, but don’t get carried away with this either.

So you think you can build?  I’ve seen quite a few servers and modules in my days, some are good, some are great, but most don’t make the cut…  If you want people to like your work, give it the time & attention to detail, and love what you do, because you will get what you deserve. (Just look at all those people who bought those NWN 1 Wannabe games, lol)  If your work is stellar people will praise you appropriately, if it’s lame they will curse you all the more…. (I kid you not)

I hope this dissertation inspired you to be a good builder, if not, well then you’re always welcome to take your lame Module and host a dead server… (Is your server dead?)

I’m not stabbing you, I’m calling you to MAKE IT RIGHT…

The players speak for themselves, if they don’t like it, they just leave…

You want votes?  Put something up worth voting on...

Finally, on an ending note, many players are aware of why some servers are famous, look at Higher Ground, as an example, you can SEE the amount of work & content that went into that HUGE module...  More than that, it's quality content...

Not QUANTITY but QUALITY!

That's the hardest thing to do, but the most important...

No, I didn't build nor am I associated with HG (Higher Ground), though I've made multiple modules, some are familiar with my work, while others are not, I try to make quality, though I don't always succeed, however, "Trying" is the key word...

'Posted NWN 4 Ever!
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Genisys, 26 juillet 2010 - 12:58 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 01:01:19 am »


               Isn't it a bit disingenuous for someone with no content whatsoever on the vault to be lecturing others on what they should submit. You may or may not have collaborated with others but the fact remains you are the sole author of nothing on the vault. For those who would like to see the list it's here . In case you had moved content or placed it there in the first place I also looked to see if you had a web page. There is no link to such a page in your profile on the vault. 

TR
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:13 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_omen_shepperd

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 01:29:19 am »


               I do remember when Genisys/guile had a number of things on the vault. And IMO it was well thought out and scripted. He did remove just about all of his work for some reason, a true loss to the community IMO. But I can say I do remember him having a rather long list of submissions to the vault at one time in the past.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Fester Pot

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 01:35:42 am »


               

Genisys wrote...
You want votes?  Put something up worth voting on...


Like someone who handed out 1.00 votes back in the day?

SKS1 - The Ruins of Tcheou Cherng
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

Of Time and Death's Feast
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

Missing Dragon
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

1.69 Riding Academy
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

Revenant
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

Soul Shaker
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

The Accursed Tower
- voted 1.00 on 04-22-2009

This might be a new, flashy, sparkling looking beard but those of us from the old NWN community don't easily forget a trail of crap like that.

FP!
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Fester Pot, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:43 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_TSMDude

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 02:10:37 am »


               When you rant like this you then set yourself up for some heavy throwback. Yes Genesis did once have some things on the Vault then got mad and yanked them because not enough people voted. I truthfully do not care much fro the guy even though I have all his work. Matter of fact I have just about everyone’s work dled from the Vault at some point in time.
 
It is how I learned.
 
Slamming people aside, the thing about PWs which I think Gen has missed entirely is that there is a niche for everyone. Harry Potter worlds, Star Wars, Action, Heavy RP, Diet RP, and even Social servers were every woman is skinny and almost all of them are Dark Elves. Go figure.
 
And it is not the scripts or the build that makes a PW. It is the sense of Community. That is what makes people come back. Some of us LIKE realism and things like the HCR while others do not. I do not begrudge people who like Higher Ground. I am just happy they are playing NWN. Will I play on an action server? Most likely not as I would not fit in.
 
And yet I am playing and having fun because there are people that think like I do. I do not pretend to know or speak for everyone as some do. I understand that this Community is only as strong as we make it. And while I may not like certain folks I accept that they are part of my community of NWN. Even you, Gen, regardless of when you next get mad and pull this or that off the forums.
 
A Community is something we all strive for and there is room even now, almost ten years later for all of us. So instead of ranting about things you do not like try and find something you do like in one of the many circles of the Community. Be it Action, Diet RP, or Heavy Second Life Fantasy type RP.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 03:08:44 am »


               Not having been active in the community at the time I did not realise that you had a number of aliases. I have now done a search for guile and found this submission which is rather unedifying.



TR
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Estelindis

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 04:17:54 am »


               This thread might be better suited to the modules or builders sub-forums.  Nonetheless, here are my thoughts on a few of your remarks.

Genisys wrote...
"Most Just Want To Have Fun!"
Is your module fun?
Have you actually play-tested / played the module yourself?

All good questions.  It can be difficult for a builder to pull him- or herself out of the building paradigm and get back into a player mindset, but it must be done for testing purposes.  ;-)

Genisys wrote...
I remember one module I downloaded, something that blew me away (in a very bad way), something about sexual content advisories, nevertheless, it was like watching a movie (with no talk, just subtitles which only worked when you clicked on them), lamest and dumbest module I have ever played on...
Introducing rape into a fantasy game = BAD TASTE, period...

Could you possibly be referring to Valine's award-winning module series, A Dance With Rogues?  Module of the Year for 2006, now with over 1200 votes between the two installments, as well as its own 1000+ article wiki and TV Tropes page?  If so, I'm not entirely sure what the problem is with having a sexual content advisory when there is, in fact, sexual content.  Did you want people to be surprised by the violent scene to which you refer?

Genisys wrote...
One question you should ask yourself is:  Who are you building for?

Definitely agreed.  One should know one's audience, and one should also make one's module description as accurate as possible so that the intended audience is able to find it easily.

Genisys wrote...
I've seen so many lame modules it makes me want to puke; seriously, just because they did it in the OC doesn't mean you should... 

Nonetheless, everyone has to start somewhere.  There's no harm in using the OC as a guideline when one is initially learning how to build.  It doesn't mean one has to keep the OCesque parts in the finished module.

Genisys wrote...
I’m not stabbing you, I’m calling you to MAKE IT RIGHT…

For a given value of "right."  But not everyone enjoys the same kinds of modules.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Estelindis, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:31 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SHOVA

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 04:50:05 am »


               I think that if you choose to build anything, you should build it to your own judgement of what is good, great or whatever. It may not be good in other peoples eye, but if they slam it they are only showing thier own rudeness and lack of manners. The beauty of NWN is that it is easy for anyone to build just about anything, and that there is a community of people who will help you to figure out the harder stuff to impliment.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Genisys

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So, you think you can build?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 08:02:20 am »


               Estelindis



All excellent replies, thank you for adding to the post.. I like your comments a lot, well thought out..



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