Builders! Where do you get your creature stats

[Legacy_Tazzvon]

               So i know creature stats depend on what kind of mod (hack-n-slah or whatever) but if i am building a PW somewhat close to D&D rules with medium xp and treasure acquisition do i need to worry about what stats i give a creature or what abilities. I guess what i want to know is do most builders put whatever skills and abilities they like on creatures or do they go by specific guidelines and if they go by guidelines where do you find these guides. How do builders know what feats, spells, abilities, and skills a specific creature should have or not have. (not includeing the obvious things). just curious if any builders have the time to lend a hand with this dilema. Thank you all.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               If you're looking for resources to use as guides, then most Dungeons and Dragons 3.0/3.5 edition books are what you'd be looking for or are what Bioware used as guides themselves. If you're mostly expanding upon (scaling up) creatures that Bioware already made, the stats found on those creatures are very, very close to what they'd be in PnP.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tazzvon]

               Thank you for the response. I am using Bioware creatures as well as CEP2 creatures. I am tired of mods always using the same thing for beginning levels (rats, gobs, beetles, etc...) I wanted to take some of the higher CR creatures and de-level them to a lower CR (CEP fire ants, Zombies, Allip's, etc...). My only concern is not have the proper abilities, skills, and feats on them for thier lower level and also are some creatures meant to only be high level to where they wouldn't even look right to a player to run into a low level iron golem. I want to be true to the D&D format and not make creatures that players will say "you cant have a level one iron golem, what was this builder thinking". Thanks for any more input i appreciate it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               I personally use a combination of D&D 3rd edition creatures from various books as a guide, and off-the cuff creatures where I just make a judgement call on specific stats.

Just like D&D, NWN is great in that you can adjust and change things for your own adventures.  The DM/builder gets to be in control of critters and stuff. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kamal_]

               They are for 3.5, but I use these:
first one
second one
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               I'm probably not the best person to ask in your case since I don't really give a wooden nickle about what DnD claims something should have, just what I think would be the best gameplay.

In other words, I figure out what I want its AC/AB/damage/HP/etc to be and then just make sure it gets there via any means necessary that doesn't cause problems elsewhere (for example, giving creatures +20 weapons to increase its AB by 20 is a bad idea because that cuts through Epic Warding.  I would increase its Str/Dex, give it a higher BAB class, add feats for AB, or simply apply an AB bonus effect).  I'll also do things like given a sword to a golem instead of a creature weapon because, A, the PC can't tell, and B, creature weapons are bugged with Haste.  In other words, all the PC cares about is the creature they see -- they can't tell what you've done behind the same.  Epic Prowess is the same as Weapon Focus for the creature's weapon as far as the PC is concerned.

I generally find it most helpful to figure out what I expect a PC to have (level, equipment, consumables) for certain enemies and then figure out what stats the enemies need.  If you're curious exactly what I mean, give me an example of a creature, level of PC fighting it, general gear available for that PC, and how difficult the creature is supposed to be and I'll try to break down my process.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_DM_Vecna]

               I am always play testing but I drift towards the d&d 4th edition stat blocks. As the above poster suggested I look for gameplay rather than true to pen and paper play. I find giving monsters more hit points makes gameplay more memorable as the fights last a bit longer. You just have to balance magic a little more thoughtfully then.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tazzvon]

               I appreciate the replies. I see all sides of it. So if i was going to try and follow 3.5 or 4th edition rules the sites you posted (kamal_) as well as NWN only give one level of a creature. For instance an Allip in NWN and on the first of the sites you posted has a CR of 3. Does this mean if i was staying true to D&D there can be no CR1 Allip or CR25 Allip? I am just wondering. I guess if i just go by what others have posted, just make the creatures what you want and maybe use D&D as a guide for the abilities and such. Thanks again for all the replies.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Tazzvon wrote...

For instance an Allip in NWN and on the first of the sites you posted has a CR of 3. Does this mean if i was staying true to D&D there can be no CR1 Allip or CR25 Allip? I am just wondering. I guess if i just go by what others have posted, just make the creatures what you want and maybe use D&D as a guide for the abilities and such. Thanks again for all the replies.

Can be. The SRD in this regard is only a guideline for a DM, in our case a builder. It usually describes the most common properties for that monster so while Allips usually have 3HD, it doesn't mean that every single allip you meet must have exact same stats, you are free to make champions or bosses or even completely reconsider the stats of the common allip.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

Tazzvon wrote...

I appreciate the replies. I see all sides of it. So if i was going to try and follow 3.5 or 4th edition rules the sites you posted (kamal_) as well as NWN only give one level of a creature. For instance an Allip in NWN and on the first of the sites you posted has a CR of 3. Does this mean if i was staying true to D&D there can be no CR1 Allip or CR25 Allip? I am just wondering. I guess if i just go by what others have posted, just make the creatures what you want and maybe use D&D as a guide for the abilities and such. Thanks again for all the replies.

Can you make a CR1 Allip? Assuredly yes. Would it make a fun encounter? Not likely. Allips have a wisdom draining attack (claws) and a creature skin that has +2 turn resistance and a DR of +1/5. So you'd most likely just be creating an Allip with a few less HP, but one few new PCs can survive. Allips (and wraiths I think) were fudged abit by Bioware. I think they gave them DR on their skins because they lacked a way (at the time) to give them better "incorporeal traits". Personally, I give my own 50% concealment OnSpawn and swapped out their creature skin with one lacking the DR. To get back to "scaling" though, if you look at a 3.5 Monster Manual (pg10), you'll see that the bottom stat listed is often "Advancement". These are guidelines (not a strict rule) for scaling these creatures to make more challenging encounters. For the Allip entry, you'll notice that they start as 4HD, but can "advance" from 5 thru 12HD.

Humanoids often gain HD by character classes and not more levels of humanoid (or giant). So for their entries, you'll generally see listed last "Advancement: By character class" and find information in their descriptions and details as to which classes they might most commonly take.

Can you have a CR1 Allip? Right, I answered that. Here's what I usually do. I, like many of us also dislike that certain encounters are almost always found from module to module for certain level ranges of characters. I accept that kobolds and goblins are the base fodder for newbs, but instead of rats (which I do have) I made some "skeletal rats" using the CEP. My D&D roots go back to the beginning of the game and I haven't had a PnP session since 2.0 came out, so I often use AD&D and 2.0 sources for inspiration, like having "Xvarts" in place of goblins in my starting quests. "poltergeists" can be good and unique low level alternatives too if you're using the CEP (use an invisible race and give them a holdable object).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par kalbaern, 17 novembre 2013 - 11:08 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kamal_]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Tazzvon wrote...

For instance an Allip in NWN and on the first of the sites you posted has a CR of 3. Does this mean if i was staying true to D&D there can be no CR1 Allip or CR25 Allip? I am just wondering. I guess if i just go by what others have posted, just make the creatures what you want and maybe use D&D as a guide for the abilities and such. Thanks again for all the replies.

Can be. The SRD in this regard is only a guideline for a DM, in our case a builder. It usually describes the most common properties for that monster so while Allips usually have 3HD, it doesn't mean that every single allip you meet must have exact same stats, you are free to make champions or bosses or even completely reconsider the stats of the common allip.

^ this.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_BelowTheBelt]

               I use the D&D source and any other source material as a starting place, mostly for the concept of the monster.  They usually have interesting names for groups of monsters (e.g. duergar hellcaster and other types).  I then put in the abilities that work within my world and the concept I have.  However, Arenthyor is not designed to be part of the D&D universe.

If you're angling to maintain some relationship with D&D (and especially if you 'sell' your world as being somewhat related to D&D), your players will probably have an expectation that certain monsters follow certain conventions as to power and abilities.  If I recall correctly, D&D usually has tips how to scale-up or -down monsters.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Scritchin]

               I agree with MagicMaster monsters should not rely on THE template.  Using every tool at the builder's disposal to challenge the player.

I approach monster creation completely different.  I create a base template normally a human fighter with 10 in each ability.  Then create copies of this template.  

Use creature skins or adding effects to customize a creature.  

Using normal items in the creatures normal inventory I have found knocks their CR way out of wack.  

Were this really shines though is with higher level monsters testing them with an existing template lets you tailor them easily.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Scritchin wrote...

I approach monster creation completely different.  I create a base template normally a human fighter with 10 in each ability.  Then create copies of this template.

I do exactly this as well.  10 in each stat unless there's a reason to change it and I also edit a copy of an existing creature -- this avoids a spellcasting bug that I've seen pop up a few times.  I don't even usually try to make the "class" appropriate for the creature.  My Dragons are often high level wizards with fighter levels for more BAB (so add the fighter levels first and THEN the wizard levlels).  Otherwise their max caster level by default is 15 which is terrible for high level enemies.