Monsters are spawning invis and they shouldn't be.

[Legacy_Zeidae]

               Greets.

While testing some of my areas, I noticed that I seem to be getting a rather high number of monsters who, when spawned, are invisible. And I  don't mean like they cast invis and become invis, they spawn invis and they shouldn't be. Even with true seeing I can't see them. Even when they are attacking, which would wipe out any invis spell, I still can't see them..

I looked the monsters over and they are pretty straight-forward generic monsters with nothing that should affect them in that way. I know I  have seen invis monsters on mods before, but the rate I  am getting them seems a bit high.

Any suggestions on what I  can check to see what is causing it?

Thanks.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               That is a well known graphics bug. I have seen it from time to time but not recently.
Now for the standard questions?
Are you patched up to 1.69?
Do you have any hacks?
Usually this happens as a result of an overly burdened cpu. I don't know all the things you can do to alleviate it, I just know what you are talking about. Maybe someone else can give you some more deffinitive help.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ffbj, 19 septembre 2011 - 11:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Zeidae]

               Patched, no hacks, just CEP.
CPU shouldn't be burdened running the mod. I do have random loot scripts running when monsters spawn. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that I was causing. It can be kind of frustrating fighting invis monsters when you can't click on them lol.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               2 questions:  If you leave the area where the invis guys are (I mean go way off the screen) and then return are they still invisible?  If you save/reload are they still invisible (perhaps that won't work if the reload triggers another spawn action)?

The reason I asked is that I have experienced this same thing in a few modules from time to time and have now attributed it to a graphics demand on my dubious vcard.  Also, experienced the same on some servers but if I quit/rejoin they magically "appear".   It must be some some of conflict that occurs when the game tries to render the NPC though I have no technical knowledge to explain why.  I don't think it is the CPU, though.  I've even considered whether it is a gliche of DirectX or OpenGL support by the vcard driver version.

I agree, though.  It is annoying. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Xardex]

               Had this, fixed it, not sure if I remember how... Maybe:

nwn.ini
[Video Options]
Enable CreatureEnvironmentMapping=0
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Xardex, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__Guile]

               

Xardex wrote...

Had this, fixed it, not sure if I remember how... Maybe:

nwn.ini
[Video Options]
Enable CreatureEnvironmentMapping=0

Thanks for this, I'd give you a fat rep if I could..

The community for a long time has been needing to know how to disable this bug...

This should get stickied somewhere...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 20 septembre 2011 - 07:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               You can set this while either launching the game or using your ingame options. Go to OPTIONS, VIDEO OPTIONS and select the ADVANCED VIDEO OPTIONS tab. Then "uncheck" ENVIRONMENT MAPPING ON CREATURES and save.

This most likely isn't the true cause though for the problem.

"Invisible" foes are a by product of lag and poor encounter design more often than not. Try the Following tips to resolve it first.

- Paint Encounter Triggers large enough that each encounter (when possible) spawns in just out of perception range or at least out of LoS.

- Use two or more Spawn Points per Encounter Trigger.

- If spawning large groups, consider breaking them into two or more staggered encounter triggers with 1-5 creatures each, rather than 1-8.

- "Ambush" Encounters (small triggers dropping a foe almost atop a PC) should be set with only one or two creatures and spawn points still used.

- Do not use the "X2" AI scripts if you don't need to. If you've done little or no custom scripting for creatures, use the older defaults instead. "X2" scripts are redundant in that they when fired, just execute the older ones. Cut out the middleman so each AI Event only uses a single script instead of two. If using premade creatures that have the "X2" scripts applied, open each event script to see what script it fires. Then open that corresponding script and save it as the "X2" script that matches it.

- Avoid "testing" using the TEST options (F9) from the toolset. Save your Module and launch it as a single player module or even use NWServer to launch and then test it instead.

- Area size can have a big impact on both server and client. Keep them as small as possible. I use 15x15 or smaller areas (add height to width and should be 30 or less total) myself. Going from 15x15 to 16x16 or larger has measurable differences on performance.

- Placeables should be used as needed and properly set. Most should be set to PLOT and/or STATIC (some don't like STATIC) unless they are useable or add flavor (IE, their descriptions or names help describe or set a mood within the area). This helps reduce overhead in each area. PLOT will keep errant fireballs and other AoEs from destroying placeables that you created scenes with. Setting them as STATIC helps with pathfinding calls and eliminates the server having to constantly resend redundant appearace data as you move about the map..

- Before dropping placeables into a map, set the area's music/sounds, lighting and play with tileset features to make certain a placeable is required to set the proper mood. Only then add placeables.

I suspect that encounters that trigger spawns are just dropping them too close to the PC spawning them as the main issue.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               Also if you follow kalbaern's advices, tell us what really helped as I have never had this kind of problems and I'm breaking majority of those advices. Especially "not testing via F9" seem riddiculous to me.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:19 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               It's funny I used to see that quite a bit.  (Same portrait as kalbaern, hope you don't mind). Mainly with my skeletons who also threw darts at close range, so I would dance around till I got an opportunity against them which would target them.  Then I would chase them around and kill them that way.  Very annoying, and not a work around, just thought it might be an amusing anecdote.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zeidae]

               Thanks for the responses. I'll see if I have time to test some of the ideas tomorrow.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Also if you follow kalbaern's advices, tell us what really helped as I have never had this kind of problems and I'm breaking majority of those advices. Especially "not testing via F9" seem riddiculous to me.

On smaller modules, testing using F9 is generally fine. I tend to work in modules 100meg+ and often 700+ areas and it falters though. Pallette size will have an impact as well. My own PW is only 70meg and still under 600 areas and I can use F9 with few issues.

I still use F9 to walk test areas in the larger modules as I make additions/changes, but launch as a module to actually test encounters.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               This problem is much more frequent with CEP Monsters than 1.69 Monsters, just saying...

I'm sure Funkyswerve has the definite answer to the question about what causes this, and if indeed it is fixable.

I'm thinking there really is no fix, but I wouldn't know till I tried everything first...

I need to test what the above poster posted first...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 21 septembre 2011 - 01:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               A good way to test what the real issue is, is to use a fairly large map and as soon as you spot invisible spawn, have your PC quaff an invisibility potion. Then move to a point as far away from the spawned creatures as you can to get out of their perception ranges. When you then reapproach them after a few moments, you should now see them.

In a DM'd module, a DM porting NPCs to the far corner of a map, then porting them back after a moment fixes them. Limboing a creature and calling it back is another fix. This is also why, several folk that change a NPCs appearance after it spawns in also script the NPCs to port and return or apply various other delayed effects to force an appearance update to be sent to clients.

The appearance data is sent from the server to the client (doesn't matter if both are the same) when a creature spawns in and whenever they again come into perception range if applicable after. The appearance data can be dropped/lost/aborted however when that creature's combat AIs kick in. So spawning them well in advance is usually the easiest cure. Conditions causing lag can also delay the data before combat begins, which also interupts the update of appearances.

From my own testing I've found little difference in using Bioware vs CEP or other custom custom appearances. Its when I add customized weapons and other items that the issues appear. Dynamic models often suffer the most as they not only have a base appearance, but additional data for each visible part needs sent as well. Since I use customized Dynamic Half Orcs, Gnomes and Halflings in my work to create detailed Orcs, Goblins and Kobolds, I have to follow my recomendations listed previously to avoid the invisible creatures. Even then, if there are other lag issues or some knucklehead "runs" through an area spawning several mobs back to back ... they can crop up. '> So Area Cleaners, limiting Heartbeats, better and more efficient AIs and numerous other "good" building practices are all a neccessary part of having a smooth running module and avoiding this annoying glitch.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zeidae]

               again thanks for everyone's replies. My computer died last week so I haven't had a chance to test all but 1 suggestion. But I just got my comp back today. The problem arises when too many monsters spawn. My L40 dude running through low areas. I haven't had a problem with appropriate level characters. I may be able to reduce spawn size later. I have max spawn size at 8 to handle parties. A party spawning 2 creatures that are the same level as them isn't very challenging '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               One of the problems with the standard spawning method. You can fix that fairly easily though by just putting a cut-off script in the on-enter of the trigger. So just tell the script not to fire if players/party are above a certain level. Also good for only spawning creatures at night. Personally I use my own system, which is a couple magnitudes of complexity beyond the standard bioware spawning methods, though is still use bio's method for about 10% of my spawns.
Also you could toss in a few higher level monsters as unique which should prevent most of the junk from spawning when a high level PC triggers the spawn.  Not my preferred method but something to consider.  
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ffbj, 26 septembre 2011 - 11:52 .