Author Topic: Some general advice / suggestions needed here ...  (Read 1111 times)

Legacy_redmokah

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Some general advice / suggestions needed here ...
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2011, 12:55:18 am »


               What's your opinion about gender/race/class/alignment restrictions?
(re-answered because I didn't know I answered it last time haha)

This question is more difficult to answer because it's almost pure subjectivity. Personally, I think restrictions are fine as long as they make sense. If you make a module about an apprentice Wizard, then restricting classes to Wizards, Sorcerers or a multi-class that includes magic users makes sense. However just saying a half-orc can't do a specific quest because...well that's your way of "adding realism" to a module; that's an aspect of restrictions I disagree with. There's no underlying value to the restriction. You'd be doing it just to do it.

How do you keep things balanced?

The only thing you could accurately test for is combat difficulty. You do this by playing through the module with all character/race/gender types, and seeing if the gameplay seems a bit overwhelming.

Everything else will need to be adjusted based on player feedback. There's just no way to accurately test how difficult a module is through the developer's eyes. You know every trick, where to go, how to solve certain puzzles etc.

If you think about your first time through the Neverwinter Nights campaign, I could assume it took you around ten hours get through the first chapter (if you played normally without rushing through). It's not because it was hard; but there was a lot of exploration. As a player, you're emerging yourself into an entirely new world and that's not a quick process. Try the campaign now and you'll blast through the first chapter in two to five hours while getting all the side-missions, alignment points and secret items along the way.

Beta testing is vital and if you don't want the module to go public before it's complete, then ask some friends to test it out; but it's vital you get feedback from a perspective other than yours.

one the one hand, the PC will need to have level 10+ to face the bosses, on the other hand, it is important that the PC starts at level 1 ...

  

Make the boss easier - Just because the boss isn't at a super high level, doesn't mean he can't be a challenge. You can add specific armour attributes or maybe his armour does a little extra damage. Add a bunch of minions to distract from the boss or force the player to face a sub-boss before the main boss with no possibility to rest in-between.

Defeat by default - Who says he needs to die by physical damage. Think back to old games like Zelda. A lot of bosses forced you to follow patterns before they could be damaged or killed. Perhaps you could script something similar where the PC must shut off three levers before the boss can be hit. Once the levers are shut, the boss can be really easy.

Give your PC more XP - You can give your PC more XP. You don't even have to give them a lot. If the boss is level 12 for example, you could present the PC with the opportunity to level up to level eight or nine. That's still quite a challenge, while still being reasonable.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Aldatariel Calentaur

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Some general advice / suggestions needed here ...
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2011, 06:31:46 pm »


               Thank you once more, redmohak!

No, I never really thought about restrictions. If there's no real reason for it (like the example you mentioned) I hate that. In fact I am anti-racist, that's why I am not sure if it's fair if there's more small "extra stuff" for some characters than for others (rangers and druids can talk to animals, there will be one more possible ending for "faithful" characters like clerics and paladins, there also are some extra dialog lines for certain characters, it's easier to shift your alignment towards chaotic than towards lawful and so on ...). I am not sure what to do about this, but then, I should finish the main quests first.

The bosses, yes. Level 10 was just a guess. I forgot that the PC might have a henchman at his / her side. I'll adjust the levels of the two bosses after I have finished the main quests. Should be 10+, though, otherwise it would be ridiculous. The PC will get help with the final fight(s), the kind of help depending on his/her behavior and decisions.

More XP? No. I rather add more side-quests and also some "grinding spots" (I will still have to find out how to script my personal wandering monsters, but I will find a way, of that I am sure. I will think about that later, though. Main quests come first.)

Dividing the mod into several chapters sounds like a great idea, but ... I don't know if that's possible. The whole thing is not that big. I'm just a little too much in love with details and dialog options. Then, things are connected ... the story, the quests. The areas are connected, too (with one exception: the two intro areas). Now I should go back to the toolset and work on my henchmen and main quests. Darned flu, I still can't concentrate properly ...

Thank you so much, all of you. Yes, I should concentrate on the main quests and care about all the optional stuff and details later ...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

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Some general advice / suggestions needed here ...
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 12:53:47 am »


               <the spectral form of an old wizard flickers weakly into view>

Pardon me. Do you mind if I present an alternative view? Particularly in the area of
"What's your opinion about gender/race/class/alignment restrictions?" and balance. I am very fond of personalizing the RP experience. This means both restrictions and bonuses.

Take your half-orc, for example.  If he is restricted from one path, he should have an alternative not available for other races. Upon Amethyst, the Orccen (half-orc) race does not carry the stigma it does in the Forgotten Realms, they are just one of the "Younger Races" (with the hobben & sylven).  None-the-less, they have different cultural priorities and resources than the others.  Enforcing these restrictions, highlighting the differences in race & class & even gender makes the *choices* made by the PC more important.  If you dilute these differences too much, why play a non-human at all?  Why play a non-human, non-fighter, non-male character?

In the official campaign this was used rather effectively via the henchman quests (though I was quite annoyed my choice of Daelan made no effect upon the uthgardt encounters). Having radically different quests made sense in game and added a lot of flavor.

To put a different spin on it, how does a gnome wizard feel about finding two dozen uber-greatswords and red dragon full-plate on his adventure? "Um, ok. Guess I can sell it..."

To personalize the experience means you need to bias the adventure (either by hand or through scripting) so that both the adventure and the rewards(/punishment ;-) are pertinent.  You've really got to make the world seem to pay attention.  And that brings us back to the question of restrictions and balance. Let's see if I can give an example that makes sense.

Kiriel, young druid, needs a focus/weapon.  Upon Amethyst, she would enter the forest seeking a certain tree/dryad pair to bargain for a staff.  The staff, based upon a standard +1 quarterstaff, will be scripted to grow in power (tracking PC xp gained while equipped) and will learn to be a very powerful druid focus/weapon.  But she will be just a plain old +1 quarterstaff to anyone else.  That quest (for the staff) and the bonuses gained from it are very much class restricted, but they don't hinder other classes/races/etc. (Side-effect - Kiriel will never need a different *main* focus/weapon - oh how I hate Monty Hall dungeons :-P)

Now to tie into the balance aspect, I'm very enthusiastic about soft-limits and responsive scripts.  Soft-limits: The more powerful/unbalancing a thing is, the more opposition comes into play.  I almost never *forbid* something. What I do instead is create a limiting or opposing force and let them work it out. Before you ever test its difficulty, you can already put in place soft limits that are softer/stiffer based on the progress (or lack there-of) of the PC. Which brings us to responsive scripts.

Redmokah mentioned testing for combat difficulty. There is another test you can set up; healing needed.  Track how much damage your PC is taking.  The more damage taken, the better/more powerful the rewards (*pertinent* rewards, where possible). Don't just drop random treasure, tailor it to your PCs progress.  If they are getting bogged down (and probably frustrated) give them a breakthrough.  If they are breezing through everything, stiffen the resistance (one of my favorite tricks is to steal a bunch of their stuff ;-).

Final note on motivation: Write stories :-) Play PnP as much as you can.  I've been working on Amethyst for (sigh) three decades...

Whew. Haven't ranted so long in... a long time :-/

Pardon me.

<the phanatom pops with a sound suspiciously like a burp>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 27 mars 2011 - 01:04 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Aldatariel Calentaur

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Some general advice / suggestions needed here ...
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 02:55:39 pm »


               A late thanks to you, dear Rolo! :hug: :kiss on the cheek:

Yes, you are right: for true role playing, everything should matter: the race of the character, the class, alignment, his/her behavior, maybe even the faith, sub race ... now you understand why I am unable to finish a real module. For now.

In the meantime, I decided to create my personal practice mod first, "Adventurer's Academy".

I might upload it when it's finished (depends on if I get everything to work as it should... I still have to figure out how to time gestalt cut scenes properly for example).

My humble thanks to everyone who answered!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

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Some general advice / suggestions needed here ...
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 11:55:24 pm »


               <looks vaguely startled>

You are always welcome!

And, meanwhile, I shall work - in fits and starts - on my "hammurabi-style" druid sim ("Forrestal") and my epic (-ly long time in development) level 1 through 15 long-lost-heir-to-fixer-upper-castle mod "Trollsbane"...

It's good to have goals, eh? :-)

<dissolves back toward the clooud-shrouded peak of Needlespire>