*Discussion* - Favorite Server Features

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               Haha, I'm always going to think of them as "your character has to take a crap now!" from this point on.

"because let's face it, there is a lot to not like on many servers."
That's kinda sad, I like quite a bit of different elements on many different servers.


"We already know that there are mainly two kinds of builders, one which
strive for Realism & RP, and then there those who believe the game
is one of fantasy and try to keep things on the lighter side of fun,
with less realism."

Oddly, I've always tried to offer both. No extreme eating/resting systems, but you still get a ton of flavor text for areas, including lore checks to see just how much you know, etc...As just an example. I think there can be a balance in between the two.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Jenna WSI, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:30 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Especially when spammed in yellow text in your info bar...good thing there are no facial expressions in NWN...

Sorry, back to what we want!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               I like fatigue as I feel it adds a sense of realism to the game. My view may be a bit stilted since I developed one. I also like random spawns, a lot. I also tend to notice a lot of the little things like whether or not animals behave like animals, and monsters who will flee if they are overmatched, if they are intelligent enough to realise it. Basically a morale system, but perhaps a bit more complex than that. Bottom line: a world that feels realistic, without being slavish to the idea of realism.
I recently updated my fatigue system in my module, though not the one on the vault.
It's just combat fatigue, where your armor, weapons, state: (posioned, dieased, badly wounded)  add to your fatigue.  The fighting classes get more fatigue, and pretige classes get no extra fatigue, as I feel it sort of balances the unbalanced prestige classes, and you get more fatigue each level, based on con/str.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ffbj, 19 septembre 2011 - 10:42 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Fatigue systems tend to favor spellcasters, IMHO.  And also IMHO, they do not need any more favors...

I also like random spawns, a lot. I also tend to notice a lot of the little things like whether or not animals behave like animals, and monsters who will flee if they are overmatched, if they are intelligent enough to realise it. Basically a morale system, but perhaps a bit more complex than that. Bottom line: a world that feels realistic, without being slavish to the idea of realism.

This.  

I agree wholeheartedly.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               Yeah I agree about the casters. I took that into consideration in my system. Although merely being in combat, that is, near enough to a fight they (casters) will lose fatigue. Just the standard 1/rd, and they have very little to begin with since they have little con/str bonus, and the minimum amount per level. But if they get posioned/diseased they will be in a world of hurt, or heaven forbid, actually try to fight. Monks make out real well in my system, no armor, generally decent con/str, and the medium fatigue per level, but then monks should be able to run around like crazy.
My friend really hated the idea when I first implemented it, later he made a number of suggestions to improve it. That's when I thought I had something pretty good, since he starting liking it.
I have thought about draining fatigue for spell casting though.  I was thinking of some progression of fatgue loss based on the level of the spell cast. Not much trouble for low level casters but higher levels might run into some fatigue issues. Like after they buff up the party, that should tire them out a bit.  
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ffbj, 19 septembre 2011 - 11:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Since when do spellcasters have low con or str?

That is what certain spells are for...and how do you handle stuff like Tensor's tran and Shapechange?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               I'm cool with morale systems, that sort of realism is cool, but it could be a pain if you got 40 goblins running around on a map trying to avoid you, that you feel obligated to (or must) kill...

I won't even start with the fatigue thing, thanks, but I wouldn't play on a server like that...

WebShaman wrote...

Since when do spellcasters have low con or str?

That is what certain spells are for...and how do you handle stuff like Tensor's tran and Shapechange?

I always play casters with a lot of Hit Points, usually start with 16 or higher Con and take it to 21 with a splash of Dwarven Defender to make them tougher & as healthy as a druid's favorite tree!

That's exactly why I favor the Player's character over module/story/systems, so if a player is super smart and makes a better build which utterly dominates my module, great, I will even go out of my way to make a super challenge for them, maybe 3 or 4 that even the toughest dwarf would be hard pressed to solo. '>

To me it's your builder/DM that makes all the difference, truly...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 19 septembre 2011 - 11:58 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_ffbj]

               Well that's true they can buff themselves but usually they are buffing the fighters if in a party.
Anyway I decided to implement a fatigue drain on casters too, if they cast a spell in combat.
I don't play casters much, though I have found that putting a barbarian level in helps them, same point as the DD idea. The fatigue recovery is received from rest though there are other ways to boost your fatigue, campfires, elixir of zeal. Anyway so I think spell effects vanish when rest is implemented so those temporary buffing spells will not increase the base fatigue of the casters.
You can't raise your fatigue in combat by using buff spells, it's based on your vanilla stats when resting, and any items which permanently rasie stats. Perhaps that's not entirely fair although these buff spells have other beneficial effects.
I should qualify that a bit when talking about casters mostly I was refering to mages/sorcerrors., as priests, and others will most often be in armor and be using a weapon. Generally I think fighting classes will have superior str/con than will pure mages who tend to concentrate on int chr dex.
Be that as it may.  It would probably not matter much since neither of you care for fatigue systems in general.  But I think was something missing from my system so I'm glad you pointed it out.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ffbj, 20 septembre 2011 - 01:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Wait a min!  So someone who is using Tensor's or Shapechange will be fatigued as if they had the ORIGINAL stats of the Wizard in question as they rested? O_o

That Iron Golem sure gets tired fast!

Nope, definitely not a system for me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy__Guile]

               

WebShaman wrote...

Wait a min!  So someone who is using Tensor's or Shapechange will be fatigued as if they had the ORIGINAL stats of the Wizard in question as they rested? O_o

That Iron Golem sure gets tired fast!

Nope, definitely not a system for me.

Sometimes they just don't grasp the concept of "FUN"....
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

WebShaman wrote...

Wait a min!  So someone who is using Tensor's or Shapechange will be fatigued as if they had the ORIGINAL stats of the Wizard in question as they rested? O_o

That Iron Golem sure gets tired fast!

Nope, definitely not a system for me.

It even doesnt matter; in such environment, there is no point in making a int/cha based mage, rather make con, DR, no-AC one.

I dont mind very much on restricted rest, myself added it into my campaign but not in the style, that there are only 8places in world where you can rest, its free anywhere in town, and there are lots of camps outside but you cant use an tactic "cast everything I have to finish a monster +20lvl than me, then rest and go kill second". When I last played on a world with too much restricted rest, casters just become con-dr-no-AC and exploited the intent of that feature anyway. The only one who had issues were non-casters again. Actually much tougher resting were in The Three Towns where could spawn monsters if rested at not safe place. That was harsh finally (though it could be exploited by a resting near area transition). But it was possible and thats what I like - as much possibilities as possible.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:26 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               I like wandering monsters, and rest can attract wandering monster systems.

However, I think that Druids, Rangers, and Barbs should be able to find "safe" resting areas in wilderness zones.

Same goes for Towns and Civilized areas - Rogues should be able to find "safe" resting areas (would be cool if those trying to rest in the streets were "moved on" by the guards/watch/whatever, having their rest disturbed - "if you wish to rest, go to an Inn!").

That would be cool.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jenna WSI]

               AI that knows when to run away? I need to hear more about this...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               It exists - in fact, if you look at some of the Bioware AI, I believe that you will find moral stuff in it, mostly lined out - but you can activate it (iirc).

I believe Jassparre's AI has moral in it.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WebShaman, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__Guile]

               Personally, I believe that custom systems on monsters only lends to the lag when you start talking about 30++ Players spawning 2-6 creatures every minute or three.

When 60+ Players are spawning mobs and you have custom scripts running on mobs, things could get real slow.

I don't think that custom AI & Scripting is always appropriate for Servers, unless it's extremely well coded, something I wouldn't care to try, even being an intermediate scriptor.  I have seen 15 player servers that would get extremely laggy because of the Monster AI Scripting, it's a pretty common mistake with builders.  (I just use default stuff)

Besides, introducing a moral system would only increase the amount of code ran by every monster that was spawned in, which in turn, when you start talking about 60 - 200 Creatures spawned in running heartbeat scripts that are doing loops, look out, serious lag ball..

Furthermore, I'm positive that a moral system would have exploits, bugs, or wouldn't work properly as intended most likely, as it's too situational, would require constant checking & rechecking of stuff.  Obviously if Thor just hammed your partner to the floor leaving nothing but blood & guts everywhere, morale would not alway make sense, as often is the case revenge may swell up instead of fear, with the monster wanting to utterly destroy the PC by any means possible!  Maybe the goblins have a dragon in the Cave nearby that commands them to attack, and they know that the price for failure is to be roasted & eaten, fearing the dragon more than the PC they attack relentlessly!  Too many factors involved.

I'm positive they (Bioware/TSR/WOTC) left out Morale for a reason.. 
(I'm thinking it didn't make sense in a video game vs Pen & Paper)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par _Guile, 20 septembre 2011 - 07:45 .