Author Topic: Trick with Nathyrra's class choice  (Read 2291 times)

Legacy_nharwell

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« on: January 10, 2012, 01:28:39 pm »


               Does anyone remember how to 'trick' Nathyrra into leveling only as Assassin when you first meet her (so that she's only Wizard 1)? It's been along time since I played HOTU. I believe it involved breaking your first conversation with her (as a henchman) but I can't recall the exact sequence.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 12:53:00 am »


               2 reasons why this venture may prove fruitless...

1. It would be an illegal character.  It may require you to change the ini to allow an illegal char, though whether it (the setting) applies to henchmen or not?... no clue.  But by normal build rules it would take either 13 wiz levels or 5 rogue levels before the first assassin level could be selected (per the skill prereqs).

2.  Lots of changes to the henchman dynamic were made during v1.64 so if this "trick" was implemented prior to that version there's a good chance Bioware spotted the bug/exploit and fixed it via patch.

The only way I know to accomplish this is by manually changing the level-up package for a henchman prior to starting a game.

In any case, if you are handy using the Wayback Machine (unlike my own feeble attempts to find anything there) you may be able to stumble upon an ancient post that addressed this for you.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 12 janvier 2012 - 12:54 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_nharwell

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 01:16:49 am »


               It worked as of 1.68 and didn't seem to affect the game otherwise. I believe it was taking advantage of a bug in the conversation/henchmen scripts to allow you to tell Nathyrra to level in Assassin before the game levels her to match your level (when she first becomes a henchman). I'll play around to see if I can rediscover the sequence, then post it.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 09:21:51 am »


               About if you level-down your own PC, wouldn't it do the same with the sidekicks?
I doubt it but... I'm a big doubter, but always trying and 99% succeedding. Worth it.
Hurrah! ;-)

Otherwise escaping the fisrt dialog, then if you're lucky the next one could be the regular one with the class option.
Playing with Tony K might do the trick as Hip, surprisingly for being the ultimate anti-TK player, mentionned.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 05:53:54 pm »


               

jmlzemaggo wrote...
About if you level-down your own PC, wouldn't it do the same with the sidekicks?
I doubt it but... I'm a big doubter, but always trying and 99% succeedding. Worth it.
Hurrah! ;-)


Good idea but no prize, j-m. '<img'> 

The hench maintains the pre-deleveled state until the PC advanced beyond that level, very similar to how the OC worked where the henchfolk were preset to a static level that could not be changed in-game

The mentioned exploit apparently creates an illegal character by breaking a henchman leveling script.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 09:13:52 pm »


               The true problem is that does really ring a bell, from the old forums, but I'm being increasingly deaf while increasingly aging...
if that ever means anything in english, that is.
But it does in french!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Luminus

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 09:44:33 pm »


               In my opinion, Nathyrra is kinda useless. Her three class choices are Rogue/Wizard/Assassin.

Rogue is cool but not essential in the HotU.
Wizard without Tony K's AI is a bad option for henchmen, since they use the wrong spells at the wrong enemy and even then you can't pick their spells.
And the ONLY three things that are special about the Assassin, is Death Attack that works only when the enemy is not in combat and is Sneak Attacked, some minor crappy, for a henchman, spells and Use Poison that is kinda meh even if you are the Assassin.

Plus, she has crappy HP/AC/Saving Throws so she is going to die often.
If you really want her, I say just level her as a Rogue. Personally I would take Aribeth as one of my henchmen.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Luminus, 18 janvier 2012 - 10:26 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_nharwell

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 09:16:41 pm »


               Ok, I finally had a chance to complete Chapter 1 and get Nathyrra as a henchman. The trick is to pause as soon as you ask her to join you, then hit ESC to break out of the conversation. Immediately talk to her again and tell her to level as an Assassin. Since Nathyrra starts as Wiz 1 before the level-up script, this limits her to 1st level Wizard. The problem is that this results in a major cheat - Nathyrra immediately levels too high, so that she's Wiz 1/Rog 11/ Assassin 15 ! Granted that makes her actually useful for a change (normally she's the weakest henchman out of all 3 campaigns), but I really don't want to cheat by having a 26th level henchman.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 10:38:21 pm »


               

nharwell wrote...
Ok, I finally had a chance to complete Chapter 1 and get Nathyrra as a henchman. The trick is to pause as soon as you ask her to join you, then hit ESC to break out of the conversation. Immediately talk to her again and tell her to level as an Assassin. Since Nathyrra starts as Wiz 1 before the level-up script, this limits her to 1st level Wizard. The problem is that this results in a major cheat - Nathyrra immediately levels too high, so that she's Wiz 1/Rog 11/ Assassin 15 ! Granted that makes her actually useful for a change (normally she's the weakest henchman out of all 3 campaigns), but I really don't want to cheat by having a 26th level henchman.

Yeah, now that you've figured it out I pretty much recall that nobody ever used it for the exact reasons you've mentioned and I believe it also screws up any chance for an RP romance since the variables haven't set to allow that.

Actually, the same problem exists for all casters, Boddyknock (from the OC), Xanos (from SoU), Deekin & Nathyrra.  Tony K's AI is supposed to make them easier to control but if you want them to exert their combat prowess beyond the limits via training, the same gimmick works for all of them. (Well, not for Boddyknock because the AI convo control isn't there at all).  Just have them expend all their buffs before entering combat.  Sorcs & bards still have limited spells available so once they are used up whether for buffs or offense, they are forced to resort to physical combat.  Problem is:  as soon as you rest the party, it's back to status quo again. '<img'>

A wizard is a bit tougher to manage though, because the spell slots are preassigned by the AI and  forced buffing will only expend those without affecting the offensive ones.  But if you like them to cast offensive spells, that would be a way to accomplish that. If you'd rather the wiz stuck to its physical attack, make sure it wears no INT-boosting items.  IIRC there are even some INT-penalty items that would further reduce the available slots and casting ability.  These are about the only legal "tricks" I've found  to limit Nathyrra's annoying pre-buffing during combat.

As for the assassin DA proficiency with low INT, it really doesn't matter that much compared to the number of assassin levels (10 + assn lvls + INT mod).  And in my experience, if you can generate lots of AoOs around any assassin (like in dense mobs and range attackers) it will increase the DAs significantly.  Since the prime targets for DA attacks are low Fort NPCs, casters will be the most likely casualties.  classes with Fort as primary save like fighters, rangers, pallies, barbs, etc. will be almost impossible to land successful DAs especially if they have high CON. 

IMO, successful DAs from a hench are pretty much whistling dixie anyway.  Maybe in mobs they may get a few but otherwise not a reliable feature.  Plus, DAs must be spammed unless the attack is very high damage and piercing through DR, seldom the forte' of a typical dexer assassin.  Else, the character just get pounded when the stun wears off. '<img'>

In any event, congratulations for uncovering the exploit again years later after the fact.  It's a bit like deja vu all over again.  It's a bit like deja vu all over again.  It's a bit like deja vu all over again.
 '<img'>

BTW, I only ever took Nathyrra along for the full trip once, with Aribeth in tow, to see if there would  be a chick fight fight over my toon.  IIRC, it was an evil male elf one. *lol*
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 19 janvier 2012 - 10:48 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 05:19:09 am »


               

nharwell wrote...
The problem is that this results in a major cheat - Nathyrra immediately levels too high, so that she's Wiz 1/Rog 11/ Assassin 15 !

Well, let speak english here, as we say in France: what is a cheat to you? 
You "accidently" escaped a convo? And some evil and malevolent inner NWN bug granted you a pretty level 26 henchwoman? 
I'd say you just use her. 
You are not responsible, nharwell. You are not an intentional cheater. 
You simply belong to the best ':bandit:' kind ever: the natural born innocent rogues. 
Now dance with it.

@ Hip
Just a reminder: Boddyknock has no "AI". He doesn't even have a "I" in the first place.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 20 janvier 2012 - 05:33 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Greatpanda

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 01:40:50 pm »


               Talk polite to her, continue adventure with her for few weeks. Then talk with her about training, she will explain to you what is red sisters and then you can ask her to go straight to be an assasian.

Althought the storyline give hints she is best as Wizard(she can be Wizard/rogue/assasian). She seems work well as assasian because you will found some powerful daggers(+8) and rapiers(+8 against undead or constructs) for her to equip. And her INT raise not as fast as whe gain level in Wizard class. I tried to asked her to rise only in Wizard class and in chapter 2 she become a level 13 Wizard with INT=17. It seems if she continue as Wizard her INT could not rise up (in 8 levels) so that she can cast high level spells effectively(she require 10+x for casting level x spells). So it seems a poor choice for her to concentrate into Wizard class only.

However, she is Drow and I always afraid, if I asked her to raise in Assasian levels, she may trun to kill my player in some point! '<img'>

I had experienced once she attack me during heat of a battle, this is why I never asked her to rise only in assasian level(except first time gaming). '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 03:21:34 am »


               You can tell her to train as an assassin as soon as she joins you.

And I've never experienced her attacking me.  Only two faint possibilities I can think of would be her getting Confused or you hitting her with an AoE spell on Hardcore+ difficulty.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Greatpanda

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Trick with Nathyrra's class choice
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 08:08:38 am »


               

MagicalMaster wrote...

You can tell her to train as an assassin as soon as she joins you.

And I've never experienced her attacking me. Only two faint possibilities I can think of would be her getting Confused or you hitting her with an AoE spell on Hardcore+ difficulty.


Yes, you can adjust her class as soon as she joined you from Chapter 2. Just speak as much as possible to her and ask her about training, then select the class you want to develop. 'Posted

Maybe you had not turned on the hardest difficulty level. In hardcore mode, fireball can hurt your henceman! But this does not happen in normal difficult level. So if you turned on AD&D or hardcore mode, your fireball can hurt companions and they may strike you! I found bard is the most easiest class to wrongly hurt companion in NWN, it may because they usually cast soundblast(level 2) which is area effect and few offensive speel available to bard. '<img'>

In hardcore mode, other NPC may hurt as well, so take careful when you land your spell.  I think solo is best in AD&D and hardcore mode. 'Posted
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Greatpanda, 26 juin 2013 - 07:09 .