Knockdown immunity items?

[Legacy_christesII]

               So I finally decided to play through a game of HotU (a little late, I know).  But I have a question:  How frequent/easily available are items that grant immunity to knockdown?  I'm currently building a character and am wondering how much I should emphasize discipline.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               Tell us what class? That always help.

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Spoilers!!!

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You'll find anything you need on the road. As always.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_christesII]

               Oh, sorry.  I meant to say that.  Wizard.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               Don't go for discipline. It's not a wizard class skill, so it's going to cost you 2 skill points. Go for concentration all the way instead, lore and spellcraft, heal eventually, could come handy as well for the storyline.
Invest in tumble, spot, listen if you  feel like. Or save those extra points for later if you ever multiclass.
As a wizard, if you're knockdowned, you're dead. Stay away, fight pretentiously and obnoxiously from the distance your high intelligence deserves.
I'm really fond of the rogue wizard myself. Hide, strike... and sometimes run behind the hench(wo)men kind of hero. And tumble, hide, move silently spot, listen are most welcome skills in that matter. But costly.
If it's your first wizard, go plain. Devastating... in higher levels. I could only suggest for any first time playing a class going plain. Then you know what it's about. Watch your henchies working, thy're most of the time better than me...
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 30 septembre 2010 - 07:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_kittycatArcane]

               And just in case you do get knocked down, eventually you can get a hold of some very nice slippers which somehow fit on the feet of a dragon... ;P
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I can't believe I forgot those ones... as well as the first part of the question.

But these forums are obviously being watched by angels...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_BelgarathMTH]

               I saw one set of dragon slippers in the entirety of HotU. I forget where - it may have been that smith woman up on the surface, in Waterdeep, outside the inn.



I had other priorities at the time, or so I thought. It turns out it was a huge mistake not to make buying them my absolute top priority.



I didn't know that:



1) I would never have another chance to get them in the whole game.

2) My investment in Discipline skill was going to prove useless against Improved Knockdown and ridiculously high attack bonuses.

3) There were going to be some battles near the end of the game where Knockdown was going to be the deciding factor.



Now I know.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               Discipline is important only for fighter types to avoid called shots, disarm & KD. (Take special note that archers can call shots from across the screen, so it's not just melee threats.)  But you'll need discipline gloves to boost it enough to do anything worthwhile.  The epic ones will raise it +30.  Any item that boosts Str will help boost up to +6 max.  Then Skill Focus: Disc is another +3 so that's 9.  So, at say clevel 25, the discipline can be boosted to 28+9+30=67 which should be more than enough to avoid all those attacks. If you are REALLY paranoid about it, Epic Sk Focus will raise it to 77, probably overkill, eh?   I'd guess anything over 40-45 should do the trick through most of HotU.

Like jml said already, disc is quite pointless for a caster except perhaps a battle cleric.

The only difference between KD and IKD is the creature size which can be attempted.  Otherwise, they use the identical check to determine the result.

There are a pair of Prismatic Dragon Slippers among a pile of skulls in the West of Lith My'athar area.  Those are quite probably the best boots in the game with immunities to Fear & KD, SR of 24 and +4 to dex.  Their unfortunate bane is -Cha, however, so pallies may not like them as much as the standard ones.

That Thieves Hood also has KD immunity but I can't recall if it drops/shows up in HotU.  With a rogue level or UMD (like from bard or assassin), it can be equipped.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 27 novembre 2010 - 04:10 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               Yeah, those prismatic dragon boots are pretty sweet (hint, use a spell or equip an item that gives ability drain immunity before equipping the boots). And, the spell resistance of 24 can still come in handy (sometimes) at that level. There are also a couple armors that drop (and maybe bracers of locking grip are available in a store?) that add a decent bump to discipline.



BTW, I thought improved knockdown also actually considered the attacker as one size category larger for the discipline roll, which means the discipline roll the defender makes is 4 lower than it would otherwise be. I've never checked it with combat debugging, but my impression is that IKD is effectively 4 tougher to resist than KD, in addition to being able to attempt knockdown on creatures one size larger than otherwise. Since the minotaur is already a large size creature (another 4 to the roll), he can be pretty fearsome with knockdown.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               BTW, I think one can just buy a pair of dragon slippers in the quarry office store...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_BelgarathMTH]

               Skill Focus and Epic Skill Focus in Discipline! I had feats to burn, and I never thought of that! I am indeed "paranoid" about KD, since I find that I lose fights to that more than anything else in the game.
 
I had also found those Epic Gloves of Discipline, and I didn't think about using them until I was already in the heat of battle and finding out the hard way that 25 in Discipline isn't nearly high enough to do any good at epic levels.
You're a genius, Hip! '>

@Mr. Zork: Thanks for the tip about the quarry office. I'll definitely have to check that out next time. Hindsight is truly 20/20.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par BelgarathMTH, 27 novembre 2010 - 03:54 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

MrZork wrote...
BTW, I thought improved knockdown also actually considered the attacker as one size category larger for the discipline roll, which means the discipline roll the defender makes is 4 lower than it would otherwise be. I've never checked it with combat debugging, but my impression is that IKD is effectively 4 tougher to resist than KD, in addition to being able to attempt knockdown on creatures one size larger than otherwise. Since the minotaur is already a large size creature (another 4 to the roll), he can be pretty fearsome with knockdown.

Yes.  That's a way to extrapolate the relationship.  Good point.

To rephrase slightly, if the Kder is the same size as the target, there is no check bonus.  For each size category LARGER than the target, the KDer receives a +4 bonus (eg minotaur KD against halfling gets +8 bonus).  The check calculation works exactly the same for KD/IKD.

However, since IKD allows the KDer to simulate one size category greater, there are now more creatures which can be attempted and in those cases where the KDer's simulated size is greater than the target, it gains the aforementioned size benefits.  In the case of minotaur with IKD (simulating "huge") against human (medium) it will gain +8, so the discipline skill of the human must compensate for that boost somehow.  In the reverse situation (human w/IKD simulating "large" vs. mintoaur), the human gains no check bonus.

Take additional note that the -4AB applies for both versions (i.e. the simulation does not affect attack).

BTW, great tip about the equipping sequence of ability-drain items.  Greater Ammy of Health works for all classes and not all that rare '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 27 novembre 2010 - 05:06 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Meeszy Alexy]

               Another way to get Dragon Slippers: Kill the Talona cleric in Shaori's Fell, and take the shoes off from him. There's no alignment penalty or anything for doing it, and it's a lot more satisfying and faster than going through that damn Talona challenge. (You can still get the cure to Talona's sickness this way, as the cleric carries the cure on him.) I'm sure there's another way of getting the Dragon Slippers before Chapter 3, as I remember having about 2 pairs of Dragon Slippers in my inventory (for my PC and Deekin), as well as the Prismatic Dragon Boots (For Valen, since he doesn't need Charisma for his attacks and it gives him some SR).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Meeszy Alexy, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:18 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Aterious Draconius]

               i think i actuqly got a pair of dragon slippers off the blue dragon on lvl 1 of undermountain if not there it was deff on that lvl i obtained a pair...