Romance options?

[Legacy_Halo Ravenwing]

               

Exile Isan wrote...

Vaalyah wrote...
 The thing that I can't really guess is the reaction of Valen...

I have to ask what you mean by this?

Maybe because at the end of the game, Valen and Deekin are kind of friends at that point? I don't know, that's my guess.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Vaalyah]

               I can't understand why he got disappointed. Really. Deekin is an innocent soul, so he gives the most naive answer he could do. But at this point, Valen should had already known how Deekin is. So why he is so disappointed? What did he expected from Deekin's answer?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               In Valen's worldview, the only way anyone can survive is to gain power through manipulation and force.  According to that worldview, an innocent and simple being, like Deekin, should have been destroyed by the powerful beings he's face long ago.

So under Valen's worldview, if Deekin has survived, that must not mean he is so simple and innocent after all- it must be an act covering up some sinister cunning.  Valen was expecting an answer from that revealed that the song was developed as part of a strategy to defeat enemies, something similar to one of Valen's stories about his fights with demons.  The fact that the Doom song sprung simply from an aesthetic choice by Deekin, rather than some sort of conniving calculation to destroy Deekin's enemies, challenges Valen's worldview.

Valen doesn't understand Deekin's true nature yet, because in Valen's worldview, it's just not possible for someone so simple and innocent to survive.  Part of Valen's disappointment in the answer is that the answer denies Valen's worldview, and may force Valen to reconsider whether everything he believes about existence is actually accurate.

This exchange ties into the romance between Valen and the player character, as one of the paths in the romance is to show Valen that there is more to existence than some eternal fight for power.

Vaalyah wrote...

I can't understand why he got disappointed. Really. Deekin is an innocent soul, so he gives the most naive answer he could do. But at this point, Valen should had already known how Deekin is. So why he is so disappointed? What did he expected from Deekin's answer?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Halo Ravenwing]

               

Mystery X wrote...

In Valen's worldview, the only way anyone can survive is to gain power through manipulation and force.  According to that worldview, an innocent and simple being, like Deekin, should have been destroyed by the powerful beings he's face long ago.

So under Valen's worldview, if Deekin has survived, that must not mean he is so simple and innocent after all- it must be an act covering up some sinister cunning.  Valen was expecting an answer from that revealed that the song was developed as part of a strategy to defeat enemies, something similar to one of Valen's stories about his fights with demons.  The fact that the Doom song sprung simply from an aesthetic choice by Deekin, rather than some sort of conniving calculation to destroy Deekin's enemies, challenges Valen's worldview.

Valen doesn't understand Deekin's true nature yet, because in Valen's worldview, it's just not possible for someone so simple and innocent to survive.  Part of Valen's disappointment in the answer is that the answer denies Valen's worldview, and may force Valen to reconsider whether everything he believes about existence is actually accurate.

This exchange ties into the romance between Valen and the player character, as one of the paths in the romance is to show Valen that there is more to existence than some eternal fight for power.

Vaalyah wrote...

I can't understand why he got disappointed. Really. Deekin is an innocent soul, so he gives the most naive answer he could do. But at this point, Valen should had already known how Deekin is. So why he is so disappointed? What did he expected from Deekin's answer?

Wow, my thought was totally different.

At the end of the game, Valen and Deekin have a better relationship than this conversation suggests. The thing is, though, when this conversation triggers initially, during chapter two, the interplay makes sense in the span of their relationship. I mean, to Valen, Deekin is an annoying, tone-deaf kobold, right? HOWEVER, when it gets replayed later in the game, it no longer makes sense since Valen and Deekin are friends at that point. So... I kind of figured it's more of an issue of the conversation being replayed when it's no longer relevant, and not really something to do with Valen's worldview. Unless I'm misunderstanding your point, in which case, please explain!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Halo Ravenwing, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:20 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Vaalyah]

               @Mystery X: thank you very much, that does make sense! Since you are so good in explaining things, could you also explain to me the meaning of the dialogue between Valen and Nathyrra? That related to Valen's tail. I am unable to catch the meaning, I suppose due to a loss in translation...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               I must be very naive.

I always thought that complaint dialog was Valen's version of jibing Deekin.  After all, someone like Valen could turn poor little Deekin into a grease spot with a single back hand.  What I found amusing was how dense Deekin was to all of Valen's well-planned jibes.  Somehow I think that an outsider would have more in common with a reptilian than a human.  I mean, to a certain extent kolbolds do live on another plane than humans, at least their society is completely separate.  And that would give both Valen and Deekin at least one characteristic in common... natural outcasts from human society.

But then again, perhaps my mind is just making it up as it goes along, bored by all the clicking.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Vaalyah]

               Sorry, pupo, but this time I think I am in agreement with MysteryX. I think that Valen's question was real, serious. And that in some sort of way, he got disappointed with Deekin's answer. I just couldn't understand why :-P



However, I am repeating my question: please, someone could explain to me the meaning of Valen/Nathyrra dialogue about Valen's tail? I really can't catch the meaning!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               I don't remember that conversation between Valen and Nathyrra exactly, but I think it was mostly sexual innuendo.  The female drow were discussing Valen's tail as if it represented his ... manhood region ...



I assume that in the Italian version, you only get to read the text of the conversations, and cannot listen to voice actors performing the NPC conversations.  That is probably why some of the sexual innuendo (such as the other conversation in which Valen suggests something like, "I know of an exit to the surface nearby, we can ... search for it ... if you wish?")  The innuendo has as much to do with the tone of voice as the words themselves.



               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               I know Valen wields the big weapon in melee.  But when it comes to a battle of the wits with Deekin, I felt Valen was woefully ill-equipped.



And though Valen probably would assume that he should be able to squash Deekin with the back of his had, Deekin is actually a remarkably tough little guy.  He's survived a lot of things that seemingly should have squashed him easily, which is precisely what perplexes Valen about Deekin.



I don't find Valen to be a likeable character anyway, particularly early in the game.  He's a narcissicist drama queen.  He doesn't start to become likeable until he apologizes for, essentially, being a narcissistic drama queen.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nightwoe]

               I read that reference in the toolset. It took me a minute to figure it out, but pretty much what happened is he raised his eyes to an authoritive female drow and in her disgust of his lack of respect she compared his uhm...I guess manhood is a good word, to how thin his tail is. (referenced in the dialogue when Nathyra(sp?) "points to Valens sin...sinuey(?) tail", emphasizing its sleekness and lack of girth.)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Nightwoe]

               Also, I don't think Deekin gets enough credit. I don't think he was always "dense" to Valen's questions. It is good to remember that Deekin has definately matured to the ways of the world in his travels, and in my opinion, in some of the dialogues he is more "playing dumb" then being dense, more to annoy Valen than anything.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Vaalyah]

               @Mistery: I can assure you that I am unable to understand also the "exit to surface" sentence. Also in my language, the sexual innuendo are something I am unable to understand. So every time, all friends are laughing and I look at them with this face: o_O A friend of mine has the duty to explain to me all this kind of jokes, I am not kidding!

Moreover, English and Italian has a completely different tone of voice during the sentences. ie: in a question, the Italian tone is raising towards the end of the sentence, while in English is the opposite.

However, I have to agree: on a wit point of view, Valen is defenseless against Deekin!



@Nightwoe: I think Deekin is far wiser and smart than what he would to show... also with Sharwyn :-D some wonderful dialogues... like the one he asks for money not to tell she coloured her hair!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Exile Isan]

               Valen is not a people person and he's not sure how to interact with people of this world, except perhaps the drow and that's because they are more like the beings of the Abyss than anyone else. There is a conversation that doesn't trigger properly in chapter 2 where you can ask Valen what his time on the surface was like before he found the Seer and he tells you a story of how he was tricked by hobgoblin sorceress into killing a Paladin because she, the hobgoblin, told him they were freedom fighters against an evil hunter. Valen didn't know anything about the surface world, or the creatures in it, which is what lead him to being so easily deceived. Which may be why Valen feels distrustful of the PC and Deekin (jealousy also works into this but that's something else). And there is also the fact that Valen finds Deekin annoying, as another poster said, and in the particular dialog that we are talking about here Valen finds the Doom Song annoying (heck even I find it annoying sometimes) and Deekin's explanation that the Doom Song was just made up one day and that it is not meant to drive the enemy mad (though it is driving Valen mad) annoys Valen even more. And he decides just to drop the conversation rather than lose his temper and rip Deekin's head off.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Exile Isan, 20 novembre 2010 - 12:04 .