Charismatic Archer?

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

Sarielle wrote...

Neng the elf bard has been born. '> Unfortunately she's not as persuasive as she thought, because she ended up failing the "Shut up or die" roll on the crazy prophet there in Hilltop and uh...sort of killed him.

Whoops.

EDIT: And lest I come across as ungrateful, I'm having a blast guys. Thanks so much for all the help. It added a layer to the character's personaltiy for me, lol.

Well, since you started already, there's no point arguing about builds any further. '> That's the nature of this game and the various builds. Nothing is perfect. One build does one thing better than the other and something worse. Welcome to Neverwinter Nights. '>

Take Dorna and have her level in both Cleric and Rogue. At least you won't have to step on traps to "disarm" them.

For Persuade checks, just reload the game or pay them if the option is available.

You also take Deekin and have him level as Rogue only, up to you. See what fits.
For HotU, you could take Nathyrra and have her level only as Rogue. Better than Wizard or Assassin, at least.

You chose a tricky build but you learn by doing and learning new things. See it as a challenge and everything becomes fun. Glad we helped, one way or another. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Luminus, 18 novembre 2012 - 07:00 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Sarielle]

               I definitely don't mind further input, though. I replay these every year or so and I can always tuck builds back so I don't have to bother you guys next time '> I'm also not that far in at all, heh. So starting over isn't out of the question.

And I know I could have reloaded, but barring a wipe I prefer to keep trucking with whatever I do or don't get. Makes playthroughs more interesting. Found out that guy dying meant that I couldn't help the Red Wizard, for instance. Fun consequence.

I did try starting out as a rogue too, and felt more powerful. Obviously, no boss fights though. I considered bard/rogue but since I didn't know the stat breakdown/what to take at what level etc. so I just went with what was laid out already, lol.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               Haha, I see.

Well, Bard has buffs and spells, Rogue has skills, sneak attack and stealth. So it's up to you to chose your playstyle.
If you chose Bard, you take Rogue NPCs.
If you chose Rogue, you take tank companions.

With Bard you need to know when to cast the various spells and Bard/Curse Song.
With Rogue how to get into position to sneak attack and which enemies are sneak attackable.

Also, I think the Sneak Attack damage is very good to have in SoU.
Bards take a while to get their great spells, like all casters. Improved Invisibility doesn't come until 10th Bard level.
And I consider Hide in Plain Sight superior as it it's infinite and you always can use potions of invisibility. Though that 50% concealment is nice. But if you can hide instantly all the time, they cannot hit you anyway. Hit and hide tactics are awesome, like a sniper.

Don't forget that with UMD you can equip the tasty Monk items. Like Robes of the Dark Moon. Permahasted. That's +1 attack, +4 AC etc. Plus their boots.

And don't underestimate that 1 Wizard level if you go the Rogue/Wiz way. You get some very very nice spells if you take it at second level:
Mage Armor, True Strike, Protection from Alignment, Identify, Summon Creature I, Grease, Expenditious Retreat, Magic Weapon, Shield. Plus a familiar for another meatshield to protect you.

There are builds in the previous page that list both combinations. Bard/AA and Rogue/Wiz/(1 SD?)/AA.

I say test both builds in HotU since you start at 15 level. See which build suits you best.
Don't forget to get the second AA level asap. That 10d6 damage from Imbue Arrow is just great and softens bosses.

The choice is yours. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Luminus, 18 novembre 2012 - 11:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               That imbue arrow was great against groups of shadovars.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sarielle]

               

Luminus wrote...

There are builds in the previous page that list both combinations. Bard/AA and Rogue/Wiz/(1 SD?)/AA.

Oh yes, I looked this one over but the CHA was low and persuade pretty low, too. I was just ultimately concerned that going pure rogue would leave me with unkillable bosses, and a rogue + arcane archer would leave me with crappy social skills.

So I went with this one, probably dropping a social skill for UMD.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Sarielle, 18 novembre 2012 - 05:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

Sarielle wrote...

Luminus wrote...

There are builds in the previous page that list both combinations. Bard/AA and Rogue/Wiz/(1 SD?)/AA.

Oh yes, I looked this one over but the CHA was low and persuade pretty low, too. I was just ultimately concerned that going pure rogue would leave me with unkillable bosses, and a rogue + arcane archer would leave me with crappy social skills.

So I went with this one, probably dropping a social skill for UMD.

Not really if you alternate between Arcane Archer and Rogue as Empyre's build shows. You can save all your skill points at level up, so when you get that Rogue level, you can put the skills in Persuade etc.
Both the Rogue and the Bard, have Persuade as class skills, so they can both max it. But the Rogue has more skill points that he can put somewhere else.

10 Charisma with 14 Charisma is exactly +2 point difference in conversation skills and UMD. Not that huge of a loss, as you can use Potions of Eagle's Splendor, or some persuade item. If there is any. I think it does.
You could just take those 4 points away from Strength so it will be 10 STR and 14 CHA. You only gain +2 damage from it and only if it's a Composite or Mighty Bow.

You don't really need more than one conversation skill, I think. Just raising Persuade is more than enough.
Dropping UMD might be unimportant or not. I would sacrifice some other skill.
You don't need Spot or Listen as no enemy hides ever. Though I might be mistaken. It's been a while.

By the way, if you think you have screwed something up with your build, don't be afraid. You can relevel from level 1.
Press ~ in game to bring up the console prompt on the top left. Then type DebugMode 1 to enable the cheats.
Then, type GiveXP -xxx. xxx is the amount of xp you have. Then DebugMode 0 to disable the command prompt.

For example, GiveXP -5000, (with a minus) removes 5000xp. That brings you to your desired level. Then type GiveXP 5000 to give that xp back and level up.

Yes, if you were not aware of this command, you can use it to gain max xp which I don't recommend because there would be no challenge at that and it would be pure cheating.
I only use it to fix details in my build as retraining rules exist in PnP. It's far better than to replay the entire game.

So if you want to experiment, give yourself 28-30 levels so that you can plan yourself how you will proceed and finish and then remove the extra xp. Or start a new game.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Luminus, 18 novembre 2012 - 07:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Sarielle]

               What is spellcraft doing for the Rogue/Arcane Archer build?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kamal_]

               

Sarielle wrote...

What is spellcraft doing for the Rogue/Arcane Archer build?

The character gains a +1 bonus for every 5 ranks in this skill to all saving throws against spells.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sarielle]

               Ah, I gotcha. Thank you.

Loved the Path of Evil campaign, by the way. Secretly, Lawful Affably Evil characters are always my favorites. :3
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Aelis Eine]

               I always thought a Charismatic Archer would be some Divine Might archery build. If you're stopping at HotU I'd probably go with something like Human Bard/Fighter/Blackguard. Should be able to get Bard 16 for maxed song and level 6 spells, Fighter 6 for Epic Spec and Blackguard 4 for Divine Might and 1d6 Sneak Attack before the end. The 2 songs and War Cry will easily make up for the lack of AA AB. With Epic Spec, Divine Might and 1d6 Sneak Attack tacked on to Song and War Cry, you can easily get +23.5 bonus damage on top of your base bow and arrow damage. If you have a Mighty bow, you can stack double Bull's Strengths (Blackguard + Potion or Spell) for up to +10 strength to get even more damage.

Course, the trouble with a Divine Might archery build is the stat spread. You'll need 13+ Strength for the prereqs, 16 Cha to power Divine Might and get spells, 16+ Dex to hit stuff, decent Int for all the good skills Bards get and Con to not die.

My advice is 10 Con/10 Int, take Toughness as a level 1 feat, use your range and buffs to make yourself harder to kill, and be very judicious about the skills you take =p Perform should be maxed, Tumble should be maxed. There's a few good bows that are AA-only so you'll need UMD for those. Then there's Persuade which is kind of the reason you wanted a Cha build. That should leave room for 1 more skill, probably Concentration or Spellcraft.

Also, run through the OC Prelude to start at level 3. It's a little meta, but you kind of need Bard 2/Fighter 1 for Summon Creature I and Longbow Proficiency. A Dex-based Level 1 Bard is... unplayable in NWN =P
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Aelis Eine, 19 novembre 2012 - 12:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

Aelis Eine wrote...

It works but it might be too hard to play in the beginning, too complex and requiring too many buffs for her.

The Divine Might build does more damage but loses lots of AB as you need to max Charisma for damage which is another limited buff.

Personally I think AA is more to the point as you don't need magic bows, you automatically increase their AB and damage permanently through it's class features plus you get Imbue Arrow for massive Area of Effect damage.

The Rogue/Wiz/AA is basically set and forget, no buffs, except for some through potions or the Wizard spells which are not necessary.
And you get Sneak Attack damage, enhancement damage from AA, Imbue Arrow, tons of skills, you don't need other Rogues NPCs and it's just easier to play.

But let the others and Sarielle say what they think too.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Luminus, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:10 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Sarielle]

               Soo...at some point during my early running around Hilltop I lost Dorna. She didn't die ... she's just nowhere to be found. She's not back at Drogan's and she's not anywhere else. Is this fixable? lol. I hadn't saved in a bit and I'm not redoing again.

EDIT: LOL never mind, found her in the tavern. Pete's sake Dorna, Neng likes a good drink as much as the next person but it's kinda not the time.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Sarielle, 19 novembre 2012 - 05:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

Sarielle wrote...

Soo...at some point during my early running around Hilltop I lost Dorna. She didn't die ... she's just nowhere to be found. She's not back at Drogan's and she's not anywhere else. Is this fixable? lol. I hadn't saved in a bit and I'm not redoing again.

EDIT: LOL never mind, found her in the tavern. Pete's sake Dorna, Neng likes a good drink as much as the next person but it's kinda not the time.

You should quicksave all the time. Before you talk to important people, before buying or selling anything and when you enter and about to exit new areas. It's free and it's instant.

I would make various hard saves after each act or before you exit the game for the day. I do it to make sure I don't screw up badly for some reason.
For example I number them.
Then when you finish the game, just delete them. They are not taking much hard drive space anyway.

By the way, what's the build you chose to go with?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Luminus, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:21 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Sarielle]

               I went with the rogue/AA build. I enjoy handling my own locks/traps for a change. Feels very powerful at low levels. Nice change of pace! lol.

And yeah, I do save fairly often but I hadn't been paying attention to when I last saw her, lol. Anyways, what's the shortcut for quicksave? I used to know it but not anymore, lol.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

Sarielle wrote...

I went with the rogue/AA build. I enjoy handling my own locks/traps for a change. Feels very powerful at low levels. Nice change of pace! lol.

And yeah, I do save fairly often but I hadn't been paying attention to when I last saw her, lol. Anyways, what's the shortcut for quicksave? I used to know it but not anymore, lol.

Awesome. It is. Melee types are powerful at lower levels, magic types at higher. ...Clerics at both. xD

Take that Wizard level at level 2 if you can or asap. Mage Armor stacks with normal armor, plus you can get a familiar (get the pseudodragon or something tough), Summon Monster 1, Protection from Alignment etc. They won't last long but helpful in tough fights.